tv Book Discussion on Negotiating the Nonnegotiable CSPAN May 15, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am EDT
>> responsible for the overall performance associated with operations safety service reliability customer satisfaction and management. in addition to serving and our board's survey of the board of directors and youth basketball coach and volunteer for the athletic association i am thrilled he is here today to introduce our guest speaker. [applause] the deal could morning we have a great speaker endeavor great audience it is the phenomenal way for me to start my day mourning it
is great to be here this morning today's lecture is sponsored to date we have a couple of representatives here today so please pull us decided tour. we your delivery innovation too smart to energy to safe reliable affordable cleve energy and services for our customers the smart ideas is part of this. our customers of staved more than half a billion dollars of last years under the smart ideas. this is what customers to use to grow businesses of the local economy. helping us to be better people in our daily live today's guest is no exception deal shapiro where the roads leading experts on negotiation and conflict
resolution has made a career out of helping people to navigate these critical conversations and as a founder and director of harvard international negotiation program, he has launched several resolutions in the middle east peace and europe and east asia. serving as chairman of the world agenda council on conflict resolution it developed a conflict huge reprogram now reaching more than 30 countries. please help me to welcome our esteemed speaker did neil shapiro. [applause] >> power you doing? first of all, a huge thank you to the library of philadelphia for making this happen today and also with peco it 8:00 in the morning to have that introduce -- somebody without much energy
to introduce me. [laughter] so it is a tremendous honor to be here with you but how many of you the past six months have experienced emotionally charged conflict? [laughter] how about the last six hours? very enough. [laughter] my sense is that almost every since considered a human being has experienced these types of complex on a regular basis had to deal with them most effectively? this is really where research has taken me over the past 35 years at the personal level with the loved ones at home and how do we deal with these complex more effectively? i will start with a different question. does anybody know what a
poplar tree is in this room? you say obviously. [laughter] >> it is deciduous. we'll leave us shake in the wind? >> that is beautiful. a few of us in the room we would know there was a to single-a-1 between north and south korea each year this little deciduous tree would grow in the leaves would block the view of the average of a return is the conduit between north and south. so small to a south korean soldiers would trim the tree year after year until august
august 61976 when a team psaltery and soldiers went to trim the tree along comes a lieutenant with north korean soldiers to walk up to those of the south you try to trim this tree we will shoot you. and they literally chased away at t but this was a security concern it did not stop them from trying a key back two weeks later on august 18 u.n. officials said u.s. soldiers all there for the single purpose of what? this is definitely the awarding. [laughter] the tree. [laughter]
they are there for 10 minutes but then they march along the lieutenant from the north goes up to the south if you try to trim the tree we will shoot. and and if you might remember what happened next this turned into a bloody mess. south koreans were injured two u.s. soldiers not just shot but decapitated caught on camera and broadcast around the world and we have experienced that context here in united states as well as a side note to present this and talking about international military leaders his face as red come
storming out i don't take you understand. i was there. i was at west point and at that point. i knew those boys. we were not just the feeling grief at the loss of the soldiers. we were feeling of utter humiliation at the way our boys died. surprise surprise the situation now reaches bohai listed united states, of the white house where president ford was making a very difficult decision. what would you do? what you feed we should do i feel we should bomb the north koreans.
the president thinks about it and decides a more appropriate strategy would be to cut down the tree. said now, as 830 powers and 64 grand jury -- trade it traded tie condo and b-52 bombers circling overhead but the simple purpose of what? trying to chop down the tree. do they do it? it takes one hour. was there for the incident? now. but as i was learning about this situation and it was literally almost world war iii literally over a tree? it obviously over much more.
it takes to fundamental questions about we talk about today that our just as relevant in the national skier as our own home life. why do we get so stocking these complex? and how do we get out? there is something strange about these. if this was the united states a and canada we would sit down and have this figured out. this was almost world war iii. where do these ideas come from? today i will speak of the elements to big things the basis of the free work --
and tried to capture that is useful for something others as well. but i can't promise you that coming from negotiating with three of the largest marketers of the world you have to believe we on this. [laughter] meets every children noah is daiquiri and adding is my greatest way how to "negotiating the nonnegotiable". [laughter] has specifically to reinforce the point that you are negotiating all the time. but also at home so how
should you deal with emotionally charged? at called it is obviously the - - recharged conflict it tears the family apart. the relationship apart. you can avoid a to crucially charge divisive conflicts so of the freddie initial spreadsheet will lead that deals with conflict. baguette it is all the hidden cost as well. ec like a base you have gentleman if we are working together i despise you or you despise me how will our decisionmaking we? good or bad?
how much information will he share? it may even be deceptive. how will appeal to the outcome? all of the hit and implicit cost to conflict you lose your star player it could take two years to find a replacement is dead to said had a death of this organization. so how should you deal with conflict? that this seagle most dangerous element it is a what you say perce -- per se but before i go further this is how people conceive of conflict resolution we have up problem between us and
the second begin to emotionally divisive conflict the will but i feel my a identity is print all of a sudden this will start what are the three basic characteristics that come to mind and think about these. in the start to feel all adversarial is us versus them. if you are wrong and i will close my ears these are the
three basic characteristics of the divisive mindset you're not immune to it. nobody. giving you a hot overview of the book that you have in your hand, the you have been to switzerland? comedy of you have been $2 -- davos? i was invited to go there in january for the annual summit of the economic forum. that is 40 or 50 heads of states in the ceo's of the top fortune of hundred companies and civil society leaders so a group of 48
people as a closed room with no windows. that what the leaders isn't one by one peace and security experts, they sit at six different tables. i sit next 50 minutes you will have a wonderful opportunity to create your own tribe your own groupon they filature or identification here is some supplies if you want to dress up tribally so literally i have the picture of a deputy at a state waterfowl blackmail i will never use. [laughter]
eliot feel the energy with six very different tribes so get up in the most boring voice i say let's debrief the exercise. all of a sudden it goes completely dark it into the room is the intergalactic alien bulging eyes. i have come to destroy the eric. -- see earth that will give you one opportunity to save from destruction of u.s. shoe's one of the six to be the tribe of of its you you cannot change anything about your tribe if you cannot come to agreement by the end of three rounds of negotiations in the world is
destroyed it is ridiculous as it sounds pretty global leaders we are global leaders we will step up to the task. round 1/6 shares of the that'll a representative from each tribe no agreement. round to six shares of the middle six representatives no agreement. round never three. now they realize they have one final round to save the world from the explosion it it just so happens as they come back into the room, the circle five and one women and they start yelling over one another. bill would lead gets so in rage i will never forget she literally stand all her
barstool and yells this is another example of mail competitive behavior. you will come to my tribe. one tribe joins her see others refuse and the boob our world explodes. -- boom our world expose. i have done this many, many times australia united states m.i.t., and with the most modest exceptions the world explodes again and again and again. in 50 minutes we collected have such an identity they
would rather be blowing up the world and sacrifice that. big about the challenges facing our world today. was security and the middle east tour in the united states. some of our identity bound. if you have a fundamental value based difference. said to be the real problem but the opportunities with the mindset how you do that to a different mind-set? however there all these forces conspiring against us.
i call these the five of the tribal mind those emotional forces to that divisive us obverses them thinking. end of the sacred and identity politics. the rest is in the book but we will start with the first. they about the conflict you were thinking about earlier between you or somebody else that work or at home with your so consumed in the conflict situation you can take up nothing else but that evil other person who perpetrated that grievance against you. we all know that but to get into it without realizing it
then we're stuck with this emotional tornado but you cannot see aside those emotional walls. i'll give you any sample. -- an example. a professor sure -- shared a story and said they thought they needed a $5 bedspread he thought it was the stupidest idea to a decision we would never make and course what happens they get to a conflict arguing more and more is started to scream then all the sudden my eyes averted those of my wife with the of the workers watching us and then look
down and watch in 20 minutes had passed for gore thought it was five. this is vertigo a worse state of consciousness where they become very different and now four years ago on a tuesday you forgot to put down the tennessee is fodder for the conversation. so that awful past that is threatened the future becomes the inevitable future 100 percent i cannot trust you if you see this broad scale conflict as well. 60 years ago you did this as the what happened yesterday and we're in the world of vertigo. how you deal with the is? it is of the book to give
>> said the latest turned into social our. and thanks for doing that so quickly. the goal is to get you to better know this person it may be little uncomfortable steal a share for things with this person you are partnered with. to an upstart and tell i explained so we do at the same time. number one what is your salary? [laughter] honestly. not the tax forms but really. number two with a political
campaign propelling for word would assure political leanings? you consider yourself a democrat or republican or independent? number three the first to we are sharing. bed next to take your best guess. how attractive do you take your partner is? hall attractive? just so nobody walks away traumatized number one is like you are okay. end number 10 is the oddest
of philadelphia. how attractive is this person truly? how old? what is their age after the exercise is done and you can discover if you were right or wrong i or low. so before we begin any questions? >> you were telling the first zero but the second to are your best guess it is all telling but a different form. number three is our attractive.
>> i am not sure am i supposed to have a report because have a ongoing relationship? is there something i should know about? am i going to be screwed later? >> nothing beyond this. no other part. >> for real? [laughter] >> why not? civic these are very difficult things. >> why are they difficult? [laughter]
civic they are very personal and charged. >> how are you feeling? >> i hope you will call it off. i am feeling anxious how many? without traumatizing you we are not in going to dig this exercise. but it's that is not my purpose. [laughter] sub love you wanted to. [laughter] recently this came to me last week i was doing this is a new york with mediators from the new york area and
afterwards there was a reception somebody came up to me and said everybody is doing your exercise. [laughter] >> it is said to traumatize any of you but because of this. the taboo is a social prohibition the big now we're not supposed to stay gore do in the problem with taboo that is at the heart of a complex situation if we are scared to death that
makes for a huge problem. with the essence of the problem the you would give socially published for don't talk about bomb streaking. -- moms tricky drinking. don't talk about that you make more than me. >> don't give that negative feedback promise you want that promotion. but then too fast for word this is the essential element.
me vs. you or us verses them. >> am looking in this conflict. and then have the situation that you continue to see. it is the taboo to meet with the other side. how do we resolve if we do good deal with the taboo? third. briefly is what sigmund freud is a dysfunctional pattern of behavior that we will repeat again and again. you may go to a waterfall
skills trading or conflict resolution and a comeback for the next two weeks is a d.c. the way they relate to people. for about two weeks than those patterns will seek back into that behavior the repetitions and compulsion. and then it is utterly challenging. whether spouses or colleagues at work with that saving dash powell -- negative pattern of behavior and then try defect then we are stuck relives value rather than advocating.
so i will close with the force of the assaults of the sacred. many things we hold sacred. test test anything that you hold deeply meaningful to you to your identity mean that anything is deeply held what used to have four or who you are the will but somebody attacks backed backed, that is the movie starts to spin. it couldn't be religion but does not have to be. of a beautiful project design. you have to see your kids
you are working than five months later the boss says they keel. but we have decided we will move forward. on some small level it can't feel like the assault now is the organization. i will close with a big table under the difficult circumstances. with crisis negotiators but this could be based on realtime situation. learning about this through a training program. a gentleman in 26 years old.
with the divisions of grandeur and i should make a side bet -- a side note that those with schizophrenia are non-violent to those affected. but it makes for the misconception of the stereotype. he had a violent tendency just to wander around. and said he sees the woman and grabs the baby pushes her into the trade tracks runs to the janitor closets and locks the door and five minutes later the york police department hostage negotiation team arrives the child is a demon you don't want to have to do it opened
assuming that we know more about what is going on in the mind of this hostage taker then he knows, and that is a dangerous place to be. to break it down, i come home after a tough friday at work and there is my beautiful wife at the door. she opens up the door, looks at the tired and says i have had the most frustrating day of my life with your three boys. my response to my wife is i know how frustrated you are. [laughter] i am in trouble. i am absolutely over
appreciating, assuming i know more about what is going on in her heart and mind and she knows the situation here. we took a break and went back to the basics, the essence of how you negotiate the nonnegotiable to the easiest, hardest things to do in the world in conflict. listening and asking open-ended questions. talk to us, how can we help you? once we started to ask those questions, we started to learn. from this gentleman's perspective, he wasn't crazy. he was trying to save the world, save the world from the demons and bring in those sacred angels. once we understood that, it completely changed our approach to the negotiation. because now we could save luck, i am in nypd. i don't see the demons that you see that i hear you saying that you're trying to save the world.
why don't you open up the door so people can try to save the world together? three minutes later, the little door squeaks open, a-alpha walks the gentleman with the baby in arms, but it is a challenge. when you are facing a situation that seems absolutely nonnegotiable, how do you proceed? how can you find it within yourself to appreciate the other side at that precise moment? that is your greatest source of power. let me put closure with our time together. so you think i'm not trying to hold something back, identity politics, just watch the presidential debates, watch the situation. you'll get it. the notion though is there are these five things. we often say work with your colleagues, make things better,
collaborate. that's useful. but if you don't deal with these underlining dynamics, you're going to get sucked down here into this effect, this mindset of us versus them. whether you are the leaders of davos or philadelphia. there is a holdove whole anothen what i call the communal mindset, sort of the positive side. we did the negative, but how do you build a good working relationship, whether it is in the family or at work, so you put it altogether. biall together. big points to overcome it emotionally charged conflict of that us versus them thinking. try at least to counter those lures. lures. lures. know your own repetition compulsion. try to resist it. it's not working for you, it's
working for the relationship. finally, as i suggest in the book, emphasized the relentless we. why does the world of explosion on occasion? you get a character that it's not my versus yours committees we. the cuts versus republican, we are a united states of america. it's about us, us, us. with that, let me say a huge thank you to all of you. it's an honor to be here. i'm originally from harrisburg, pennsylvania. i used to come pretty amazing steak sandwiches on south street, a tremendous honor. thank you all very much. [applause] so now, okay apparently i facilitate q-and-a now. how much time do we have? about ten minutes. questions, comments, criticisms?
yes, please. then there is a microphone coming. >> the work with these difficult situations. are you always successful? >> i work and a lot of difficult situations, and i always successful? absolutely not. the mistakes are worth learning. in the example, we use a lot of these kind of ideas behind the scenes around these palestinian conflict, working with some of the major parties on both sides. some of the major groups and leaders to help them move towards breaking the impasse some four or five years ago. and it helped. there was a major effort that we did in the economic forum called break the impasse.
bringing together the business leaders in particular that's a conflict isn't good for our business. and at the end of today it isn't good for the people on the human level. and this had a substantial impact on ultimately breaking between the israelis and palestinians that led to the negotiations that happened. that was the good part. the bad part, the negotiations failed. so, there is a lot of work that needs to be done. even in the home context my wife would be the first to say he tried his hardest to do this stuff. but at the end of the day, we are all human and i think the challenge is how to become more aware so that all of us don't fall prey to them. thank you for the question though. >> yes, sir, please. >> [inaudible] one side wants to listen and appreciate, and the other side thinks it's the last eight years of the national politics. >> you start with the easy
questions, don't you? i think that it's a bit more comfortable. [laughter] you see the tribalism in the united states politics. it is a clear tribalism. arguably on both sides, greater or lesser degree. then it isn't necessarily even on the merits. it's simply the fact that you are group b. in buying group a and b. are not allowed to work together. it's seen as taboo. even if i'm caught talking to words you on a video camera or a photograph. is it possible to improve the situation in washington? there is a challenge of the structures that are in place right now. the psychological structures of division. at the same time, there are amazing programs at the harvard kennedy school and elsewhere and
in the next generation of leadership with these kind of ideas how can we negotiate more effectively? writes nowadays lose-lose. how do you shift this mentality? >> what happens if one side is open to negotiating and is listening and doing all these other kind of things and the other side isn't? there is absolutely power. there's power in one. maybe it's difficult in the political scene in dc. nonetheless, one has more power than you think. in the book i talk about something i and some other researchers call this piece in between. as you and i are negotiating it's not just about you and me as a body. there is an emotional space between us. we say look there's something between the two of us and this is a problem.
it only takes one to change the emotional dynamic. if you and i are in the midst of a conflict and you are absolutely not listening to me, and everybody is looking at a finite try to figure out a way to get a third party meeting or facilitator to shift some communication between us. might i say lock him after the whole program is done with after copy just the two of us we will go to the private café down the street and we can talk. i can try to do things to take action to improve the likelihood of the two-way communication. and this hostage situation i just demonstrated. one can argue you are powerless. he has a child in his hands come he's not listening, it's everything but the truth. to me, what is the core essence of conflict from an emotional perspective? there's an emotional stalemate. i definitely want to feel understood, heard, valued, appreciate it. and so do you.
then there's the odd instinctual element at precisely the moment we are each begging for the appreciation. neither of us wants to give it. this means power. if just one tries to listen and understand and assess i want to sit down and understand your respectivperspective. they just ope opened up the dooa little bit more than a little bit more for possibility. his answer, no. the second response to the question as you and i negotiate i also want to thin went to thih what some of my colleagues call your best alternative to the negotiated agreement. if you and i can't come to an agreement, what is my walkaway alternative, what am i going to do? because i don't want to be held hostage to you in this negotiation. i want to do with my alternatives are around the table. can i make them better?
i'm trying to negotiate a business deal with you. you are becoming tougher and tougher. i might start talking over here to say i have some great products in the energy world. i'm still negotiating you are absolutely not going to listen to me i'm not going to walk away unemployed with my companies paying down. i had a good alternative. so number one, appreciate building that and consider walking is the other side truly is that robot. thanks for the question. yes, please come in the back. >> since you ended with religion i wanted to know whether or not there was an ethical, moral and spiritual components to the way that you devise the negotiating tools. are you driven by any of those pieces, moral, spiritual,
ethical? >> it's often dangerous to become a rabbi. i am not trained in any of that. however i do think i there is a transcendent element to the work that we are doing in this field. at the end of the day what is it about? it's about trying to find a greater degree of interconnection between people. i think the greatest challenge to the deeper spiritual connection are all of these mental illusions that starts to appear in our mind that are not just dangerous but completely dangerous to meet and get at the end of debate on this level my son says we are absolutely the same. i remember i work in the middle east and elsewhere. i walked in the hell am i supposed to act, what am i supposed to do, who am i supposed to be. and through this word realizing we are all human beings. it was my work there and beyond
they care about the good relationship with their spouse as people do here. we could talk about how do you negotiate that. they care as much about their organizational success. personally if it is a spiritual component to the work that i do. what are the tools that can allow you to execute a greater sense of interconnection and the devices in the circumstances. yes please. >> my children were your age and her position as i do not terrorists. [laughter] can you comment about what you should negotiate and how your context fits into those negotiations.
>> i will not compare my children to terrorists although it does feel that way absolutely. how do you negotiate with terrorists, it is a critical question. on the one hand, i think some things are -- negotiatio negotit the answer to everything. god forbid someone walks into this room right now and just starts shooting. i would say run or less storm that person. that's one side. second, how do you negotiate with al qaeda or isis. a lot of people wrongfully assume they are utterly crazy and they have no clear motivation of what they are doing. it's not true. they're absolutely driven sometimes by the secret. sacred. i feel like my sacred world is being assaulteasbeing assaulted. that's good to know. the more i can understand the mentality and the mindset of
that potential terrorists the more that i can try to influence them. number two, people say you can't communicate with them. they are wonderful communicators. think about the internet communication plan of a group like isis rideout. to me that as an opportunity. we could have back-and-forth negotiations. number three come in the book i talk, and this is going more theoretical, but i talk about the notion that we all see the world from our own sphere of identity. some people see the world from a completely political the quantum approach, somewhat of a constructed person i can change to some degree, but there is a biological given and then there's others in this world who are more on the fundamental realm. i am divinely myself, there is nothing about myself that could ever be changed. i am a product of a god or gods.
how do you negotiate with that person? in the book i share an example of a conversation i had with a very eminent lawyer. he had this unusual opportunity to talk with a suicide bomber, a kid basically from the middle east before he went off and did his thing. and the question was what should he say in a conversation where they are trying to get this child with his teenager out of the activity. his idea was i'm going to call this child, you're 14-years-old. you have your whole life ahead of you. you kill a few people, you might be in the paper for the day, you might call attention to your political cause, but it would cost you and look at the potential, think of what you could do economically, politically and so on. as i was listening to this idea,
what struck me is that this rationale. and as i'm sitting there indoctrinated into the certain belief system, who is this what you're telling me, i don't care about that. i care about the infinite life ahead of me. so how do you negotiate with that kind of person? my sense is that one can still negotiating another way to negotiate us who are the gatekeepers and religious thinkers or others that the 14-year-old will listen to and can you try to work with them on their interpretations of religious test or something like that? shifting the line in terms of what is acceptable for the political reasons so it is another way to try to deal with this. and then more generally to your question i think that there is a huge need in our society at large to think about where is the line in terms of violence.
every day when they go to school i get scared to death honestly. i love you but it's a plausiblee situation of the school shooting and things like that. the line in terms of violence hitting is just much too far in the wrong direction. we as a country have the possibility to shift back as well just as much as the terrorist organizations as well. the teams tie about? -- that means timeout? thank you. [applause]